John Stagliano Talks About his Obscenity Indictments

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Recently, well-known porn producer, director, and actor John Stagliano was indicted by the U.S. Department of Justice, with investigation provided by the FBI's Adult Obscenity Squad. Behind Kink had a chance to ask John Stagliano about the charges against him, and to investigate the larger question of obscenity prosecutions against the porn industry. Although attitudes towards erotic and sexual material have continually thawed, John Stagliano's prosecution is a reminder to us all that the freedoms we take for granted can still be challenged at any time.
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64 Comments

  1. JoeBloggs says:

    The shoot in the picture is one I’ve always wanted to watch. To this day I’ve never been able to find it, a porn classic.

  2. Jack Valentine says:

    I’m not even sure if anyone is still talking about this. Probably not. But i would just like to mention, as i’m sure someone has above that most of these posts show an extreme self hatred if you think that the activities you get into in private are so offensive that others must be PROTECTED from them, that minors should be PROTECTED from them.

    I grew up on the streets of a major American city and believe me i saw horrors ten times worse there than a couple of naked people having a party. I would have loved to have come across a naked gang bang instead of the little frozen homeless girl i found one winter. So please shut up. Listening to all of you whine about offending people is just a little bit ego-centric and patrionizing don’t you think.

    How do you know what is acceptable for people to see or not. Let me fill you in on a little secret. The world is bigger and more important than you. You have no right to control the visual stimuli that you are exposed to except by shutting your eyes to something you don’t like. So why don’t you complain about something worthwhile like the teenage runaways and crackheads that I spend many nights trying to counsel. Little girls who watched their fathers beat their mothers to death and thought they might be next.

    You detractors are nothing more than self righteous pinheads who have never really seen anything horrible so you scream bloody murder when you see anything that OFFENDS YOU.

    Newsflash PC Police the WORLD IS AN OFFENSIVE PLACE. Get used to it or get out. And please don’t complain about something that doesn’t matter, because you are just spitting in the face of all those who have seen real violence and pain.

  3. bwhorn says:

    By the way,

    Is it true, as is stated in an above post, that your crew was arrested twice? Isn’t that something you should be honest about? What are you hiding from “the community”?

  4. bwhorn says:

    Princess Donna,,

    I don’t have any subscriptions here. So I haven’t seen the complete videos on your website. But it seems as if you have actually change your methods. So i want to congratulate you on that. I have been a big critic of your behavior, because I thought you were being reckless and inconsiderate to the public. But I will praise you for doing the right thing, even if it wasn’t your idea.

    And has it ruined your product? I would argue that it has improved it. And created all kinds of possibilities that the old method did not offer. Like inviting groups to participate. Like the possibility of allowing people to appear in a group porno in a controlled situation.

    I find the new and improved Public Disgreace to be one of the more inticing websites on Kink.com, and I was tempted to join until I ran into the $30/month price tag. It one of the few websites on Kink.com that is not devoted to slavery, and the application of pain.

    I personally would like to see more innocent, fresh-faced models. You can’t really embarrass a fuck slut, can you? I would also love to see two girls forced to have sex with each other by a group. If you keep moving in your current direction I might tempted to pay that $30/month.

  5. Bewild says:

    Peter,

    This is all still disappointing. Very disappointing that nothing seems to have happened. Now I am hoping everyone will get arrested.

    Many of the shootings are not considering BDSM values of ssc, safe, sane and consensual. Men, women and children are being exposed to sexual acts, and what looks like cruel sexual acts, as well. (Unless you are into BDSM and know about that kind of stuff.) So, Kink.com got to do illegal stuff. Maybe your newer stuff is more “private” but you still have the old stuff there with sex in a streetcar, in a crowded park etc. Take it off! And post an apology and explanation.

    I would have expected considering and reviewing things BEFORE the site went online. As it happens to be still online I would have expected you to take it off the net until you are done revising.

    The true humiliation is the humiliation of the public as someone so wisely said above.

    I will never again subscribe to any Kink.com site. I have in the past and I told many fellow kinksters about your site and your values. Not any more. That’s all gone now.

    Also, there is only one post on this blog that you made. What happened to the rest? Did you get arrested in the meantime?

    People are upset and rightly so. I am originally from Vienna and have visited Budapest. I am shocked what you are paying people for to do. (Ever considered how your shoots affect the image of women in the minds of those “happy” construction workers? No law in any European country lets you get away with this.

    If one looks closely, quite a few people on the pictures and in the trailers look shocked. Some men look overwhelmed.

    Stop it now and take this site off the web!!!

    Just take a moment and think: What if this huge mistake will mean the end of kink.com? One big lawsuit in the States would take care of this. Is that what you want? How about your responsibility towards your employees?

    That’s the real disgrace here.

  6. curious says:

    Just curious:

    how often has your “fully legal” PD-crew now been caught by the police? Two times (nr. 1 with Lea Lexis and nr. 2 with Cecilia Vega) or more? You know, that six hour visit on a romanian police-station could have led to a seven year prison charge.

    Funny definition of “in full compliance with the laws of the material’s respective country of production”.

  7. УПЯчка says:

    а где ето можно бесплатно скачать?

  8. Raul says:

    Makes me wonder if the site is now bordering on a fine line. Strange how you now allow your employees at kink.com to fuck these “models.” Does that mean you paid them, or did they get the pussy without being paid. If so, doesn’t that border on being illegal? As we all know, people have been arrested for throwing parties where they had people fuck on camera for free. See, as I get it, you have to pay someone to fuck..and both people have to get paid to fuck. Also, I wonder how you handle security with these shoots. Also, if someone walks over and whips his cock out they should get paid too and get the pussy action.

  9. maxxxims says:

    I find this site ,(Public Disgrace),highly erotic and very enertaining. Though I realise it is mostly filmed in Eastern Europe I have no problem with that,they have some of the most beautiful women in the world. As for minors(kids) viewing the live shoots, I say there’s alot worse out there the could view, war,disease,natural disasters,famine,murder,ect. ect.

  10. Herpie The Love Bug says:

    I wonder how you are going to guarantee that all models in a public scene are 18. I went through your regulations and I found several that you violate on a regular basis.

    “No Choking or coughing caused by oral sex.” Come on, that’s almost every video on sex and submission. There are half a dozen regulations on there that you routinely violate. No tears as a result of oral sex? Ridiculous.

    Your regulations don’t deal with the central issue in this case, which is that what you are doing is illegal and unethical. And the fact that you have to go to Eastern Europe to do it proves that YOU KNOW it’s illegal and unethical.

  11. Raul says:

    I have no problem with this concept. But remember it is done in public. That suggests to me its permissible for passersby to walk over, unzip their pants, jack off, perhaps shoot it in the camera’s eye, or on the model, and ask for a piece of the pussy action. The point is, if you plan to do this in public, expect others to participate. Oh, and why aren’t you paying the people who walk by money?

  12. Philip says:

    I want to join this sexy site but I only have windows media player, will I be able to see the videos??

    Philip

  13. D87 says:

    To Sleepy

    I was too busy in the few couple of weeks. This is my response to you.

    I just copied these few lines from Frankophile’s comment.

    1/ “As for Princess Donna, she believes she has the right to expose other people’s children to her porno shoots”

    2/ “And despite the fact that they are shooting in other countries I have no doubt that Princess Donna is destined to compile an extensive criminal record, because she just can’t control herself.”

    3/ “But I know you don’t really care about that, so long as the website makes money.”

    Tell me Sleepy, do any one these lines prove what you said “Frank, Frankophile, and Former Subscriber are all simply trying to keep the ethical standards high” or they simply humiliated Donna and Kink?

    You said you love the site. Read this sentence I copied from Frankophile: “People don’t really seem to be on board with the whole public sex thing, Peter”. Dont oyu think this is selffishness to try to include everyone in his own opinion? i mean you love it too n so it doesnt mean everyone dislike it.

  14. Charles says:

    I love the idea but the reality is that it is not consensual for the public at large. I see Peter is going to implement some changes. Seldome do we see more than one on one BDSM videos. The slave serving at the dinner was great. More like that. Gentlemens clubs and slaves, auctions, one slave for use by many is still a hot topic and will fill the gap. Thanks for something edgie but be careful.

  15. Dawn says:

    Ok first off I would like to say that personally exhibitionism has been a fantasy of mine for a long time and i did enjoy what i saw of the new site. I also would like to state that i took a look at the new rules and i do think they will be a great help in keeping children and nonconsenting adults from viewing the scenes. I did have a few ideas that may or may not help, but here they are anyway:

    -keeping “street scenes” to back alleys

    -posting signs warning that filming of adult material is going on (esp on public transportation)

    -cordoning off the area to be used and checking id’s and asking for consent b4 allowing people to walk by.

    like i said just a few ideas i thought of when reading thru the new rules and the disscusion above. i hope it helps. im not sure if all of them are possible, or even good ideas, but it’s a start.

    note:to those of you stating your outrage at kink.com in response to this new site i have a few choice words. it’s one thing to state a concern and express your displeasure with the new material and that’s all fine and good but i am shocked and apalled to see how many of you had nothing but negativity to add to the conversation. if you have a problem with something its allways better (in my experiance) to suggest a way it can be changed or improved upon rather than just saying “it’s wrong get rid of it” this was a good idea and yes it’s not been perfected yet but no one gets it perfectly right all the time. give the kink.com team a break, and maybe a helping hand?

  16. Sleepy says:

    D87,

    You need to consider the fact that a site like PD raises a number of ethical concerns, which are exactly what everyone here is addressing. As a society, it is our responsibility to address ethical concerns, that we may avoid sinking into any kind of moral cesspool.

    This goes double for ethical concerns regarding sex, and even more so for ethical concerns regarding kinky sex – Kink.com, and the moral fetish community in general has made a commitment to safe, sane, and consensual to protect everyone involved and to protect itself, and people like Frank, Frankophile, and Former Subscriber are all simply trying to keep the ethical standards high. If something like PD offends them, it IS Kink’s problem, and it’s not about selfishness, it’s about the common good and what is morally right.

    I say this because I do think that PD is INCREDIBLY hot. Being a male sub myself, I sort of wish there were a few men being used on the site so I could relate even more. However, I am still incredibly wary of the site, because I do not want to be involved or in support of something that does not match my ethical values.

    P.S. I do hope that Kink can find a solution! Even if it means restricting it to private, invite-only sessions (one slave being used at a party by both genders is SO HOT – can it happen on a site like MIP?).

  17. D87 says:

    To Peter

    It sounds like it’s a good solution Peter. Donna worked so hard for it and so I hate to see it is deleted because of some selfish comments. Thanks Peter for not deleting such an amazing site. Donna is still able to do the stuff she loves. HURRAY!!!

  18. peteracworth says:

    Hi Everyone,

    Recently, we have received feedback from various sources regarding our new site PublicDisgrace.com. We have been listening carefully to this discussion and value every comment we’ve received, regardless of its point of view. The feedback we have received has helped spark a necessary internal debate, which in turn has helped us reevaluate and augment our shooting rules (http://kink.com/shootingrules.php) so that future shoots produced for PublicDisgrace clearly uphold Kink.com’s values (http://kink.com/values.php).

    We have decided to revise existing material. Future shoots will be shot in full compliance with our modified shooting rules. Additionally, we are changing our pre-production workflow to more fully facilitate inquiry and evaluation during the early development stages of new projects.

    Our commitment to deliver ethical and authentic kinky adult entertainment stands, and we are grateful for your participation in our mission to demystify and celebrate alternative sexualities.

    We remain, as always, responsive to your feedback and welcome further discussion on this or any other matter.

    Yours sincerely,

    Peter Acworth

    Founder and CEO, Kink.com

  19. D87 says:

    To Frank,

    Maybe I didn’t make my point clear. What I was trying to say is if you don’t like the site then just ignore it (it wont hurt you after all). Why do you have to be so fucking irritating to others’ effort and work. It’s not only me who disagree with your view. Go to public disgrace’s forum many people love the site and the work. I seriously think that you just want to find something to do in your free time and that is to annoy Donna as well as Kink. If this site is deleted many will be really upset. Why don’t you just do everyone a favour – stop bullshitting around. Don’t just exaggerate the issue. As long as the viewers/fans like the idea or the models have fun, it should be view more as a positive thing than a negative thing. Maybe some will agree with you but what about the others? DONT BE SO SELFISH! YOU ARE NOT THE GOD AND SO YOU CANT JUST KNOW WHAT OTHERS THINK OR IMPOSE YOUR VIEW ON PEOPLE.

  20. Frank says:

    So D87;

    Interesting point of view you’ve posed. So what you’ve basically said that she should be excused because she tried so hard? Is that what you’ve reduced this to? My only hope is that this doesn’t become the over all consensus for kink.com. Perhaps for you it’s okay, but Kink by it’s mere presence in this community, the struggle they went to convince the City of San Fran to let them be part of their community means they are to be held to a higher standard. Peter has always promoted this idea of the higher standard with production values, workers’ rights, how models are paid, and yes, respect for the community at large. I appreciate your opinion but feel that reducing this to Donna trying her best without addressing the core issue at hand is not the answer. What get’s me is why Donna hasn’t had the time to voice in on the thread and share her thoughts? Surely an attack on her new site would want to be engaged? Maybe it’s a legal issue for Kink that prevents the site’s coordinator to get involved, who knows…but I find it quite odd that Donna simply hasn’t rung in on this whole issue.

    Frank

  21. D87 says:

    To Frank:

    Get a life man. Annoying Kink.com and Donna is the only thing you can do right? Donna invested alot of effort into this site and so show some respect. If you dont like it then go away. No one forces you to join or see the site. STOP BOTHERING DONNA – SHE TRIED ALL HER BEST ALL READY.

  22. Frank says:

    Hello Everyone;

    It’s so good to see such a vibrant dialogue going on about this subject. I must say though, that I’m bit disappointed to see that some have taken to personal attacks against each other. This simply isn’t the place to do it. And I hope the moderaters who were quick to threaten someone for saying something negative about Donna will jump up to protect participants involved in a lively disucssion on this topic. Surely the Kink Police has a vested interest in providing a writing environment for board participants as it does for Kink employees? Or will this be an example of exceptionalism run amuck?

    As for the latedst posting to the disgrace site, one cannot argue or condemn on any level the shoots taken in doors where 100% containment is possible. However Peter has yet to come back to the board and give us an update with regards to what the over all tenor is with discussions with the production staff. As much as I hate to say this, it would appear or seems like, that this will become an issue that brushed under the Kink carpet. Will it? Only time will tell.

    Frank

  23. cassandra says:

    The thing that worries me the most about this new site is that Princess Donna will leave Wired Pussy. I can imagine that directing one site is a ton of work; I can’t imagine the energy required to run TWO sites even with lots of guest dommes/directors. I hope that Public Disgrace keeps the lovely & talented Princess Donna from burning out on Wired Pussy but please, please Donna, don’t abandon us completely – the site would never be the same!

  24. Frants says:

    Peter A, an update soon to be expected then?

  25. Moosekiller says:

    Kris,

    YOU get a fucking life and lay off of Former Subscriber. Kink.com has some shit to answer for, and as you can see there are a ton of people who want to hear the answers, however lame they may turn out to be.

    Not to mention the fact that 3 days have passed since FS’s last post. That’s not exactly obsession.

    So… SHUT YER COCKHOLE YOU PUNKASS BITCH!!!.

    (Hehehe, that’s just a little of your own medicine. I sound like a real asshole, don’t I?)

  26. kris says:

    Former Subscriber,

    Do you have any hobbies? A job? anything to do with your time besides harassing kink. If you do it doesn’t show. Get a fucking life and lay off!

  27. Former subscriber from Germany says:

    It really seems as if Kink just wants to sit out this “incredibly important discussion”.

    After all, talk is cheap.

    Was to be expected.

    PS: Isn’t it very odd, that all of Mr. Acworth’s posts (in both threats) have been deleted (expect his promise to evaluate PD)?

  28. Frankophile says:

    I take issue with the argument that people happening upon the scene of Public Disgrace will see a video crew, and thus know that a movie is being shot. Reality exists in 360 degrees. If you look at the scene where the model is up against the car, with a man eating her ass, the cameraman is obscured by the car from one direction, and a bush from another. I can’t tell what is behind him, but if someone were to come up on the scene from the street, and quickly (say, in a moving police car), they would not see the cameraman until whatever happened had already happened.

  29. Former subscriber from Germany says:

    Dear Kink.com, dear Mr. Acworth,

    dear “Frants”,

    first I may clarify myself: it wasn’t my intention to suggest, that passers-by might mistake the actions they are witnessing for anything other than what they are: a porn shoot. I may also add, that Kink.com isn’t the first and won’t be the last to do public porn shoots. But the argument “everybody does it” hasn’t been valid ever.

    My point is: passers-by are drawn into a situation – no matter how peripheral – they have not consented to become part of. This is an admitted fact. Period.

    As an excuse for this, the claim is made, that many of those people enjoy what they are seeing. If I believe this claim or not doesn’t matter, because this is not a valid substitute for consent. There is no substitute for consent in the context of sexuality (In an medical context, an emergency can substitute consent).

    What you, “Frants”, wrote about “self imposed limitations” is what ethic is about: You orient your behavior according to principles, of which you are positive, that they are intrinsically right.

    Following laws because of the formal repercussions you would face otherwise, is no ethic at all (In between there is conventional morality, but I will not start a lecture here).

    However, with Public Disgrace, Kink has both abandoned their own ethical standards (by ignoring the matter of consent) and broken the law of several European countries. That such violations of the law (as they concern PD) are set within Europe at the lowest level of the legal system and the worst penalty Kink may be submitted to is a fine of a couple of hundred Euro’s, is IMHO the reason, why Kink shots here.

    And, at least for Europeans, the context of nudity is relevant: are you a nudist, who simply likes to be naked or are you an exhibitionist, who seeks a sexual thrill by confronting people with his/her nudity and/or sexual activities.

    It doesn’t get any better by Mr. Acworth’s implicit complains, that his company is measured upon the exact standards he himself has set for it.

    My trust in Kink.com has been shattered. Not nearly as much by the launching of Public Disgrace (anyone can make an error), but by the way Kink.com has addressed the concerns so far.

    This odd mixture of contradictions, banalities and half-truths, that has been presented as a rationalization of behavior that lacks the most basal respect toward other human beings (the passers-by, to be clear), who not only were harassed but utilized for Kink’s profit, isn’t sufficient.

    We may see, what results the argumentations of concerned customers may achieve. But lets be realistic: the majority of Kink’s subscribers are “normal” consumers (I don’t mean those who do consider the problems, but are in favor of PD as it is. Thats their right and at least they bother). They may not think about it, they may not care, but they most likely will not be affected in any way by the concerns.

    Prove me wrong and convince me otherwise. Please.

    PS: Mr. Acworth, you state that only those who participated in the shooting can actually judge. So, where you there, Mr. Acworth?

  30. Frants says:

    I just became aware that there are now 2 threads with this same discussion; the other one going on as comments to the first presentation of Public Disgrace, the preview something.

    We really should read both threads, but should both be continued? It’s confusing for the discussion.

  31. Frants says:

    I havent joined yet, but I think I will, after I have re-joined some other kink.com sites that have priority for me. This is an exciting concept. But: if future shootings follow the same MO, the criticism will surely continue. You cant do this on a street and be sure no one is offended. I looked at the preview, and saw several old ladies and minors observing what went on. Not all of those will necessarily feel offended, but they may of course.

    I think I can see some ways to compromise, to keep the concept and minimise possible reasons for attacking it.

    The kids issue: you can do the scenes with nudity and sex in places where there are no kids. Such as a construction site where the general public doesnt have access, with an agreement with the workers. Or in a an adukt only bar. Or late at night in the street. Scenes with some bondage and limited nudity I think you can well do on main street at daytime, it is obvious for kids and parents that it is a movie shooting, and all kids have seen worse stuff in 100s of films on tv. (My town has a public humiliation “show” on a Saturday afternoon each late summer, when students (16-17 yo)who enter a certain school are encouraged by older students to submit to an initiation, which implies having to wash the sidewalk of a main street, some 100 yards long, on all 4s. For me, it is very sexy to watch the girls do this. And no one, as in “no-one”, has complained publicly. So with similar scenes,I say go ahead. With handcuffs. But no naked pussies on main street.)

    In Scandinavia, where I live, no one has protested against art performances that include public nudity on main street in the busiest hours of the week either. You can get away with a lot when it is “art”.

    So I think our dear princess may go on with her concept. With a few self imposed limitations and caution. Such as never, never doing a sex scene with exposed genitals on public transportation!

    But the public nature of a well chosen bar is plenty good enough as a location for the more drastic scenes.

  32. bwhorn says:

    I wanna make two points about this website-

    1. The whole thrill of having public sex is the chance that you will get caught, and face repercussions. If there are no recurcussions, if you can’t get caught, what is the point?

    2. These girls are NOT being humiliated. Most of them are smiling throughout. In fact, if they WERE being humiliated, I think you would refuse to shoot it. The people who are REALLY being humiliated are the members of the public who wander by and see something they don’t want to see. This is really Princess Donna flipping the world the bird. To me, she has never been more selfish and unattractive.

    Listening to Matt Williams and Princess Donna babble about this wonderful concept makes it more apparent than ever how insulated you guys are from reality.

  33. bwhorn says:

    You know, I was so outraged by the content of this video that I failed to notice that the sound editing on this piece is *excellent*. In fact, the editing of this piece is a whole level above your normal work. Either you hired a crew that knew how to deal with sound or you have finally gotten it right. Very nearly pro sound. Are you using boom mics now? I thought I heard someone drop the microphone when Donna was being interviewed at the end. That’s really the way to go.

    So, congratulations. You deserve praise.

  34. Frankophile says:

    1:23… 1:42… 1:51… 2:10… 2:48… 6:44… 6:58… 7:22… 8:32… 10:49…

  35. peteracworth says:

    Thank you everyone for contributing to this incredibly important discussion. Please be aware that we are reviewing all of the Public Disgrace content, along with your comments and concerns, and are considering changes. We will update you here later this week.

  36. Safe, Sane and (how does it go, kids?) says:

    What do they say about Obscenity? That it is what would be considered obscene by the community? The people voicing their concerns on this website aren’t members of some “Family Values” group. We’re consumers of your company’s hardcore pornographic content and many of us personally participate in BDSM. And if WE, are concerned, if WE are offended, you should listen to us.

    I live in Budapest. And when I saw the photo of Donna vibrating or finger fucking some girl tied to a bench in front of the 4-6 tram, which I take, along with thousands of other people in this city, I have to admit my first thought was, “Damn, how come I didn’t get to see the kink.com crew when they were here.” My second thought was about the children I see on that tram every day who are going to school.

    I don’t care what you say about lookouts with walkie talkies. I live here and I recognize half of the locations you filmed in and I can say that a lot of them (like the path leading up to the Castle, which is probably the most popular family tourist destination in the city) are high population areas and there is NO WAY to make sure that children (or non-consenting adults) can be 100% certain not to view your content.

    I know lots of people have a fetish for public sex. But, like rape fantasies, this is something that should be played with safely. I think you’ve done a wonderful job with Midnight Takedowns in exploring the ethics and gaguing community reaction before launching the site, and I cannot believe that you would tread so lightly around this site, which only involves the appearance of non-consent, and cavalierly blow off the concerns of your own members about Public Disgrace, which involves real non-consent, even if it is, as you insist, only “momentary.”

    I think the trailer you shot for the site is hot. But the scene with Bobbi Starr is also hot. Why is it not enough to shoot content like this–women getting used and humiliated in front of an audience of poeple who have consented to be in a BDSM shoot. Why do you have to push it so far as to involve non-consenting bystanders?

    I know that Princess Donna likes to push her kinks to a point I think is too far, the scene shot in New York an earlier post mentioned where she talked about the kids who asked what was going on when they saw a latex clad woman pretending to be a dog is an example. But I thought Peter would have had better sense. Peter, you said no to the fisting and watersports site, why couln’t you say no to this?

  37. Kink PR says:

    Frankophile, we *will* delete your posts if you insult our models and directors; disagreeing with us on content concerns is one thing, and we encourage and understand it. Insulting our personnel is another matter entirely, and is not allowed here. Doing so lowers the discourse on this important issue, so refrain from it.

  38. Frants says:

    I totally disagree with the statement that Donna is getting fat – she is not!

    But the “Former subscriber from Germany” is right in the description of laws and customs in Europe.

    However, he seems to omit the fact that passers by will see a whole film crew with cameras and sound exquipment, so what they perceive is not a rape but a film shooting. With some nudity, yes. So what they will discuss at their dinner tables is a film shooting they witnessed. And possibly disliked.

    I have had some children commenting that they disliked images of nudity in an art gallery I was operating. And yes, it made me wonder if we should have age limits for entry to some art exhibitions. We decided not to.

  39. Former subscriber from Germany says:

    Dear Kink.com, dear Mr. Acworth,

    enough is enough.

    Its one thing to challenge peoples moral and ethical viewpoints. Its another thing to offend their intelligence. With launching Public Disgrace you did the former one, with your PR and personal comments you are continue to do the latter.

    Mr. Acworth, at least for Germany (my Home country) I can assure you that your shots are downright illegal. However, “illegal” in this regards means, that such matters as public nudity and/or sexual interaction are handled not as a felony, not even misdemeanor, but as an infraction (if thats the correct translation for Ordnungswidrigkeit).

    That means, the worst thing you will face is a fine – not a charge as Sex-offender. Additional, speaking for Germany, it is up to the Police to decide, whether you caused harm, disruption of public order or not and – if you did – whether a mere warning instead of a fine is enough. And I am not aware of any country within the European Union (or Europe) in which such activities would be completely legal. Your argumentation, that the site would be impossible if you would offend someone is preposterous. Even if you had to pay fines for every single shot, the site would be still profitable.

    Mr. Acworth, it doesn’t matter, if you make some peoples day by exposing them to the activities of the Public Disgrace-Crew. Personal preferences and tastes are not identical or interchangeable to consent. For example: it is fair to say, that most people enjoy sex. Does that mean you can have intercourse with anyone, just how it pleases you, without asking them beforehand? Usually that would be called rape. And, in complete contradiction to the disclaimer on the bottom of your different sites that states “All material shown on this website is consensual”, your PR people already admitted in the forum that “we do recognize that some of the nudity and/or bondage are visible to people who have not consented to see it”. And then adds reassuring “That said, While they haven’t consented to this ahead of time, we also don’t approach or involve them if they do not seek it out.” Very relieving, indeed.

    And Mr. Acworth: have you ever visited a beach on continental Europe? You state “virtually all beaches in continental Europe embrace nudity to some extent or another (in full view of minors)”. Let me correct this, just a little bit: On MOST beaches it will be TOLERATED if a women lays topless in the sun. Full nudity – especially that of a male – would cause quite some stir. And why? Because lots of European countries have separate nudist beaches, were you can run around naked as much as you like. What might confuse you is the fact that those beaches – at least again in Germany – are separated from each other by nothing more then a warning sign, stating that you are entering/leaving a nudist area and therefore have to dress – or undress. Because this separation does not only protect the clothed people from the nude. It protects the nudist as well from voyeuristic views. Nudism and exhibitionism, believe it or not, are different things, too.

    What really repulses me about Public Disgrace is the fact, that – similar to nudist beaches – there are plenty possibilities to engage in your exhibitionist desires without forcing it upon people that have no such desires. There are enough clubs and other localities (BDSM-oriented, Fetish-oriented or plain “vanilla”) and dozens of erotic- and porn-fairs on which you could perform way beyond the limitations you have to suffer in the US. But that wouldn’t be edgy enough, you have to shock your (unwilling) audience.

    Kink.com has completely adopted the mainstream economies approach of “Hey, lets go where the standards are the lowest, the workforce is the cheapest and we don’t have to give a beeb about anything but profit”. Even more: you adopted the stance of your current and still government that, as Americans, you can do whatever you want, were ever you want and to whomever you want. Great! You may have different interests than Mr. “Junior”, but your complacency and disregard for anyone with different tastes or opinions, is quite the same.

    What really leaves a stale taste for me, is, that until now, I actually believed that Kink had some “Niveau” and somewhat of an ethical spine. But here I learn, that the standard Kink shall be measured upon are homeless drug addicts and that your ethos goes down the drain, as soon as you find a semi-legal loophole to circumvent serious repercussions. And for what? For content, that in your opinion, is equal to a European shampoo commercial?

    You really lost your sense of reality. For a company whose business is to enact fantasies, thats lethal.

    Speaking from an continental European point of view.

    PS: This nonsense about “who is paid and who is not” doesn’t make any sense and contradicts what your PR already admitted.

  40. Kathryn says:

    Just watched the new promo trailer with interest. With my own professional background being marketing, I think the spin in this new trailer is entertaining (but sad).

    I particularly love Peter’s comment: ” Congatulations on this new site. The content is so daring…I don’t know how you do it!”. (Looks like he is deflecting the sh**ty end of the stick to me ha ha!)>

  41. Kathryn says:

    Peter,

    I am pleased that, at last, you have responded. However, I think the comparison you draw to desperate people shooting up in alley ways is quite pathetic. Those people are not sitting round a board room table making decisions that affect their P&L account. They are doing what they do out of sheer desperation and out of a state of almost certain mental instability or pain.

    It would be so much better for your company if you (and Donna) just listen to what we are telling you. This blatant disrespect for people (and probably laws) is going too far.

    Kind regards, Kathryn (someone who loves quite severe BDSM and fetish, but who also respects the fact that not everyone wants to be exposed to it without first consenting to see it).

  42. Frankophile says:

    I have looked at the stills of the shoots on Public Disgrace (a name which fits Princess Donna perfectly) and I have a question-

    What are you going to do when a police officer sees a woman chained to a post and being sodomised and decides to shoot your rapist in the head?

    I recall an incident in a parking garage when you guys were shooting the test for the abduction website when a guard found your crew and sent them away. What if you had been shooting the abduction scene and the cops showed up?

    If something like that happens it will set back the public acceptance of fetish by decades. I am old enough to remember when the fetish community was considered a grubby underground of psychopaths.

    Please don’t bring those days back because you got greedy and stupid.

  43. Frankophile says:

    Look out, Frank, if you rock the boat Ilana will make you and your posts disappear.

    In my opinion Kink.com has proven that they don’t care about the reputation of the larger Fetish community. Their only concern is making money. As for Princess Donna, she believes she has the right to expose other people’s children to her porno shoots. She expressed this viewin the documentary where she filmed Wired Pussy in public in New York. There are children walking around in the background. She did this without permits, and they overslept so they did it with tourists all over the place. It was enormously irresponsible.

    I find this attitude very disturbing. I find Kink.com’s practice of turning anything and everything into a website quite disturbing. And despite the fact that they are shooting in other countries I have no doubt that Princess Donna is destined to compile an extensive criminal record, because she just can’t control herself.

    If you have genuinely caused anyone offense? Peter, you have already caused people on this website offense. Read the posts. You have caused ME offense. But I know you don’t really care about that, so long as the website makes money.

    But I suspect it wont. People don’t really seem to be on board with the whole public sex thing, Peter. You have the right to do what you want in the privacy of your own house. You don’t have the right to expose the public to it. That’s just basic consideration and it’s also the LAW. We have laws for a reason.

  44. Frank says:

    Dear Peter;

    I’ve found it quite odd how you’ve managed to really dismiss the core concern here. If I didn’t know any better, I’d swear you were a politician running for office.

    A few points Peter. I am very well aware of many of the countries you’re shotting in. I’m also aware of what a pre-shoot team can do to grease the way for yoru crews upon arrival. The fees and palm greasing that is done with local officals. To sit there and say that these countries do not have decency laws or for that matter laws against nudity in public is ludicrous of you. Is your belief that all viewers are less then the staff at kink and without any knowledge of what may be going on?

    As for standards in Europe…I know a little about that too. You should know I also live in London because of business (Earl’s Court area, just off of the Old Cromwell Road). And with Frankfurt Messe as one of my stopping grounds with business (I’m in pro audio and lighting) I’m quite familiar with what Germany has to offer their TV viewership along with countries like Switzerland, France, Belgium, Austria, Italy and of all places Hungry. Any adult programming involving nudity is alway in the evening hours and almost alwasys after 8:00 p.m. This notion that pronography can be seen on tv during the day is a cop out Peter. What’s going on with you. YOu really sound like you’re trying to pitch and sell something that was never meant to be sold to begin with.

    Here is a perfect example:

    You have a banner image on the front page of the new site. In this imagae you have a beauitful woman bound to a tree and gagged with her breasts exposed. she appears to be in this position on what seems like a major traffic area. Now Peter…in what did you make sure that each vehicle passing by did not have minors? In what way did you make sure that those in the automobiles or trucks were conscenting to seeing this woman bound and gagged to a tree?

    Next…the shot with Valentina Blue, the second trailer on the site…in what way was the scene on the public bus scrutinized for conscent. Was ever single person asked to sign a release before shooting? Probably not because the country didn’t require it. One shot where an older woman sitting in frong of Valentina and her male partner seems shocked and amazed that she was sitting in front of a sex scene. How about the scne when she’s being walked around with cum slut writtin on her chest with cum all over her face. How did the public interst get served? In what way did you secure the non-exposure to minors?

    Peter, I really think you guys have crossed the line with this one. It’s very much akin to pedophiles realizing that they couldn’t fullfill their needs in this country, so they’d fly to central america or southeast asia to do so. But then the u.s. got smart and enacted new federal legislation that made that kind of behavior and anyone who faciliated it a federal offense even if done out of the country. While I’m in no way call kink pedophiles…please let me make that clear…I am saying, however, that the mentality is similar…we can’t do it here int he states…so let’s go to eastern europe where our dollar can buy legal and political protection to do those things that we need to do.

    There is no way you could muster a stand that you are taking all measure to make sure that minors are not being subjected to your material. Nor is there a way you could defensibly argue that the public is being protected. You may think that because a few young men with telephone cams have stopped to shoot fottage is a sign of acceptance, but believe me Peter, shock does alot to num the senses in order to defend itself from emotion.

    Peter, I really feel you’ve gone out of your way justify this new site. The way you tried to inject morality and acuse this country of strict sexual laws as your basis for your decision for shotting in easter europe is disgusting.

    Your cavalier attempt to brush this under the rug really makes me think that you don’t care, and as such make me think that spending a couple hundred thousand dollars to simply make a point is what is well worth it here. at what point is enough enough?

    Frank

  45. Frank says:

    It’s been nearly a week since making my initial comments on this new site. My issues, to elaborate, are merely with conscent and protection of minors…even in an Easter European country. What I guess I find surprising is that a week has gone by and not even the site’s moderator has responded. Sure I’m sure she’s very busy. She’s just coming off the wonderful Folsom Fringe and Folsom Street Fair weekend. Who knows, perhaps she’s on location again. However, I’m simply surprised that no one from kink has chosen to pop on to address this issue. And while I may have been understanding of Donna’s inability to response, I still find it reprehensible that a site producer/moderator can’t find time to check comments on what was to be their grand debut of a new format. Or maybe no one at kink deems concerns such as these important enough to respond to.

    Reminider Kink. One of the many obstacles you faced when engaging your immediate community there as you were prepping the armory as the official home for Kink was the visit you made to offices of the City Supervisor who is in charge of the district where Kink is now located. And their discussion there was a the community standard and how important it was not to cross it. You even went before your community’s business council and assured them that your intentions were legal and honorable. Perhaps not in those words, but you definately went out of your way to let people know that they shouldn’t worry about Kink or its content.

    What were to happen if those that initially showed you support found out your engaging in the production of content that pays no respect to the public and takes no obvious care in protecting the minors of a community? I’m really shocked at the silence of kink staff and their inablity to give this any importance.

    Frank

  46. pink says:

    Like bjork, I too have lost my confidence in Kink (or shall I say…in Peter’s judgement).

    I have been a supporter for more than 7 years. I not only have enjoyed much of the content – it has always been a pleasure to support what I believed to be an honorable company.

    I’m sorry to say that I no longer feel this way and, I will not be renewing any of my Kink site memberships.

  47. bjork says:

    i am a huge supporter of Kink, but this site has made me more than uncomfortable since i first heard about it. The risk of exposing non-consenting adults and children is just too great. There really is no way to avoid it. Frank and others have expressed my concern well, so i won’t repeat what has been said. Sadly, i’m afraid with this site Kink has lost much of my confidence in its commitment to safe, sane and consensual. i will not be subscribing and i will be reeavaluating my other subscriptions as well now.

  48. An affiliated webmaster who won't be promoting this site says:

    I had the same reaction as Frank. What about minors, and what about respect for everyday people in wherever it is you’re filming? There are some stills of passerbys looking horrified… don’t think they are on the kink payroll or signed releases. not cool.

  49. Joe Beans says:

    I think the points that Frank and a number of other people bring up are good ones. The risk of children seeing it is a real one, and if these are truly being filmed in public than it is impossible to prevent a child from witnessing behavior that is best kept between consenting adults. In addition, but doing this in public you take away the ability for the witness to “consent” if they stumble upon a shoot they can choose to leave, but they will have already been faced with images that might find quite disturbing.

  50. uglyvan says:

    to everyone: :o eeeh! I don’t want MY country (France) to be the last to adopt free sex (with little girls ? why not, as long as they have free will and are hot); things are changing deep inside; YOU must accept the change; in the near future girls should all be elevated to goddess rank, so don’t expect us to keep you out of business ;)

  51. stickysticky says:

    Part of me likes this site – well at least the lighting and colour balance are good! – but I bet that some members of the public in Budapest will be offended by these shoots, therefore I will not subscribe. I happen to like raucous free jazz. I listen to it on headphones and occasionally on loudspeakers in my flat. I don’t open the windows and blast out what I like and force everybody else to deal with it. Does this analogy help explain many people’s concerns? I am not even into BDSM – I subscribed to a Kink site because at last there seemed to be a porn company with ethical standards. You have lost my confidence with with this new site – no one at Kink seems to find offending the public an issue. You pretend to be oh so bold. If you really believe in public sex why not try shooting this in the UK, or Iran? The people of Budapest are easier for you to piss on.

  52. Frank says:

    Hello Again Everyone;

    Please note that I did not make the post in opposition to this site as a means to generate drama but to raise awareness. I think a larger picture needs to be seen here. I just hope someone from Kink will contact me and help me understand why this site?

    Frank

  53. Lindsay says:

    I have to agree with Frank on this one and I definitely don’t think that the video answers it all. I feel like this is a lawsuit/criminal investigation waiting to happen. You can’t possibly expect to shield children from these shoots…there will inevitably be a mistake or something uncontrollable. Two lookouts sure but a child and a quick glance takes a moment. I think there is a big consensual issue here. You may stop if someone becomes offended but once you’ve reached that point you’ve already sexually violated someone. I think this is a dangerous avenue for kink.com to take. I don’t see the justification to risk a huge court proceeding which could cause new laws to restrict the porn industry and this great company. It needs to stick to private, invite only public viewings.

  54. yoyoyo says:

    @Frank

    if you watch this episode, it answers your questions.

  55. Kathryn says:

    I really think the non-consenting general public element of this site is a mistake for Kink.com. I am from the UK and this type of thing just shows a total lack of respect for people and general society. Don’t force this stuff down the throats of people who probably would never choose to see it. Keep it more in the realms of ‘strangers’ in a private arena.

  56. Akash says:

    Good this vedios. i like this and all so my friends. thanks to all kinkmembers.

  57. Laser says:

    Well said Frank.

  58. claudio says:

    hello princess woman. I love this kind of vieo. but I wanted to know information. there will be video with “all girls”. thanks

  59. JROD says:

    I think you should avoid shooting in the environs of any of those post – stalinist construction sites. Their work is notoriously shoddy and they still insist on a weekend live forum in which they knock their foremen for being imperilistic slavedrivers. This cannot help.

  60. Frank says:

    Peter;

    I was quite surprised to see the content of this site. While the content matter by itself is exciting and thrilling, I question the way with which you’ve chosen to bring about the reality of this web site. The use of Eastern Europe for the mainstream porn industry has been a recent phenomina, and the question I have to ask Peter…what steps did your staff take to make sure that those who were publically exposed to this content were concentual about it. I mean isn’t concentuality the cornerstone of bdsm? Another question, what steps were taken to make sure that minors were not exposed to viewing this content during fliming? Why not do it here in the U.S. (probably because you know you’re entire staff would be arrested). So what gives Peter? This has come as quite a shock and surprise. To not only endorse and sign off on a site like this, but to do so without no obvious means of assuring that the viewing public that were injected into these se were concentual and that minor in now way were subjected to the content. What gives Peter? Why?

  61. smahax@yahoo.fr says:

    Congratulation for Peter (CEO) and princess Donna, and all other for create publicdisgrace, before i have devicebondage, and now i have publicdisgrace it’s exactly what i love! i haven’t find a submissive for play in the street, but i hope my dream come true soon. In waiting i will continue to appreciate publicdisgrace.

    I see you was in hungary, if you plane to go in Netherlands or in France, contact me if you need some support.

    regards

    oh i forget Princess Donna sometime i prefere you in sub role, but for this new website your are perfect for that

  62. Cand86 says:

    Everything looks great, and it’s so cool to know that it’s Donna’s dream coming true. I’m glad this one got chosen over the audience version- it’s a lot more creative and different, and edgy, taboo, and daring.

    And . . . why do I feel like rates of European construction are going to slow down considerably? :)

  63. uglyvan says:

    i hope mistrelle Emmanuelle :spoiler: Beart :/spoiler: will soon make an OFFICIAL appearance :sarcastic:

  64. hardware56 says:

    Great concept! I enjoyed the preview. The first few shots look great and I will look forward to see how far you can take this. You probably could only do this in Europe.

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